The world of sports has always been a crucible for society’s biggest debates, and in recent years, few issues have been as contentious as the question of transgender participation in women’s athletics. At the center of this national conversation stands Riley Gaines—a former NCAA All-American swimmer turned advocate for women’s sports and gender equity. Her outspoken views have drawn both admiration and ire, most recently sparking a high-profile clash with Olympic gymnast Simone Biles.
On a recent episode of The Stephen A. Smith Show, Gaines sat down for a candid interview, tackling the controversy head-on and offering personal insight into her journey from elite collegiate athlete to one of America’s most prominent voices on women’s rights in sports.
A Champion’s Origin Story
Gaines’ athletic credentials are impeccable: a 12-time All-American, five-time SEC champion, and two-time Olympic trials qualifier. Her senior year at the University of Kentucky was supposed to be the culmination of a lifelong dream. But at the NCAA championships, she found herself competing against Lia Thomas, a transgender woman, in the women’s 200 freestyle final.
“I look over at the lane a couple lanes over, and there’s a 6’4” man standing there,” Gaines recalled. “His size 15 feet taking up the entire diving block. Visible from his side profile is not only his Adam’s apple but, to be pretty explicit, the bulge in his women’s swimsuit. I recognized this to be wrong—as did 99% of athletes on that pool deck—but everyone was terrified to say it.”
In a rare twist, Gaines and Thomas finished with the exact same time—down to the hundredth of a second. But when it came time for the trophy, the NCAA official handed it to Thomas, explaining, “When photos are being taken, it’s crucial that the trophy is in Leah’s hands.”
“That’s when I made my mind up that I would say something,” Gaines said. “We all recognized it—my coaches, the athletes, athletic directors, the officials at the meet—they all knew it to be wrong, but everyone was terrified to say something.”
The Backlash and the Battle
Since then, Gaines has become a leading conservative voice on the issue, hosting her own podcast and appearing regularly in the media. But her advocacy has come at a cost. She recounted harrowing experiences of protests, threats, and even violence: “I’ve been in situations where my well-being, my safety, is at risk. I’ve been held captive for over four and a half hours in San Francisco, a mob of protesters demanding money if I wanted to make it home safely. In Seattle, I had human feces thrown at me. In Portland, people were arrested for trying to terminate my life.”
Despite this, Gaines remains resolute. “I think my take is just about the least controversial take on the entire planet—men and women are different,” she said. “But for saying that out loud publicly and unapologetically, you’re really met with some of the most hostile and oftentimes violent encounters you could possibly imagine.”
The Minnesota Softball Controversy
The spark for the latest round of debate came from Minnesota, where a transgender pitcher led Champlain Park High School to a state championship. Gaines was quick to criticize what she saw as a violation of Title IX, arguing that biological males should not compete in girls’ sports. “This was a boy who pitched five games straight, 35 consecutive innings, only allowed two runs. They won the state championship—it was his team’s first time ever making the state tournament. He led his team, but not valiantly. He was following the rules, but it violated federal law.”
Her comments drew national attention and, notably, a response from Simone Biles.
Simone Biles Responds—and So Does Gaines
Biles, one of the most decorated gymnasts in history, took to social media to rebuke Gaines: “You’re truly sick. All of this campaigning because you lost a race. Straight up sore loser. You should be uplifting the trans community and perhaps finding a way to make sports inclusive or creating a new avenue where trans people feel safe in sports. Instead, you bully them.”
Gaines described her reaction as heartbreak—not from the personal attacks, but from seeing a role model “pull up the ladder behind her.” “I have looked up to her and admired her,” Gaines said. “What did bother me is knowing the platform that she has and how she was so quick, in such a venomous way, to sell out young girls like my little sister.”
The Larry Nassar Comparison
In her response to Biles, Gaines invoked the memory of Larry Nassar, the disgraced USA Gymnastics doctor who abused hundreds of athletes, including Biles. She wrote, “All the horrific sexual abuse Simone Biles witnessed and spoke out against caused by one man, yet believes women should be forced to strip naked in front of men to validate the man’s feelings.”
Smith pressed Gaines on this, calling it “below the belt.” Gaines stood by her words, clarifying, “Larry Nassar is a monster who should spend every single waking second for the rest of his life miserable and rotting away in prison. But to try to normalize this, or in Simone’s case attempt to silence those who speak out about this, that’s the conclusion I was drawing here. No girl should have to go through this—whether it is rape, unwanted touching, voyeurism, or indecent exposure.”
Smith acknowledged the validity of Gaines’ personal experience, adding, “You’re a lady, I am not. When you talk about what’s offensive to you, I can never know what Riley Gaines just alluded to other than how you explained it.”
Searching for Solutions
Is there an equitable solution for trans athletes in sports? Gaines once supported the idea of a third category, but after seeing its failure in international swimming—where no one entered the new division—she changed her mind. “It is antithetical to sports to have a category based on identity. We don’t have a category based on race or religion. Sports aren’t about your feelings. They’re about winning and success.”
She argued that the solution is the one that has existed for decades: separate men’s and women’s categories. “That allows for everyone under the sun to compete.”
A Call for Dialogue
Despite the tension, Gaines said she welcomed Biles’ apology, which she viewed as “a bit of damage control,” but accepted nonetheless. She expressed a willingness to have a direct conversation with Biles, hoping to “further elaborate the position I have taken, the line I have drawn in the sand, and why I will never back down from that.”
As the interview ended, Smith thanked Gaines for her candor and clarity. “You explained that thoroughly, and I really appreciate it. There’s always a place here for you anytime you want to discuss these issues.”
Conclusion
The debate over transgender participation in women’s sports is far from settled. But in the voices of Riley Gaines and Simone Biles, and the platform provided by Stephen A. Smith, the world is witnessing a collision of deeply held values—fairness, inclusion, safety, and progress. As the conversation continues, one thing is certain: the future of women’s sports will be shaped not just by athletes’ performances, but by the courage to speak, listen, and seek common ground.
